WEB OF DEBT BLOG

one more video–Occupy Wall Street L.A.

11 Responses

1. 

   Jon Spock, on November 9, 2011 at 6:45 pm said:

   I’ve been reading your blog for a while and although I’ve haven’t watched this video yet, kudos for trying to educate the protesters. This kind of info needs to trickle up since it sure isn’t coming from the top

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2. 

   gerryhiles, on November 9, 2011 at 9:46 pm said:

   Good presentation Ellen … which I will post to Zero Hedge and wherever (I have kept plugging away, as best I can, for a long while now).

   A suggestion: interest charged = private taxation by banks.

   You correctly point out that the interest charged to companies gets passed on in higher prices for consumers (also advertizing costs, but that is something of a side-issue).

   In any case MSM propaganda has skewed public perception into believing that government is necessarily bad – helped along by sundry libertarians – thus a VAT (say) of 10% is bad/evil, whilst banks charging 10-20%, via their form of taxation, might be grumbled about, but is generally resigned to.

   My argument goes somewhat along these lines.

   Yes governments may well be corrupt and misuse tax collection, but it has a trickle around effect amongst all those involved, from welfare recipients (who spend local and pay taxes on goods and services), to even the corporate giants like Boeing and GE, which would fail without government contracts, especially if they have borrowed from private banks and can no longer service debt.

   A mantra of neo-liberalism/monetarism/the Chicago School and deregulation has been that there would be a “trickle down” effect.

   In fact – since private banks (not least the Fed) – won the ideological day (circa 1980), it has been trickle, then flood up all the way.

   The “stealth tax” of compound interest (especially) has, unfettered, led to a present of gross inequality, conflict, wars and even the banks, amongst theyselves having lost the plot … none of them being sure about how insolvent another bank might be.

   OK rant over, except that maybe it is a good idea of mine to point out that interest IS a form of taxation, but into private hands that have no local allegiance.

   A local government charges taxes on properties, which go towards providing roads, schools, street lighting and a fire service, for example, whilst the interest/tax charged by private banks can go anywhere.

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   • 

     Ernest Huber, on November 10, 2011 at 9:10 am said:

     Great points, Gerry. I would add that all private (interest) and personal federal taxes eventually feed the banking crime syndicates, The unnecessary taxes are fallaciously used to a posteriori justify the fraudulent debt and continued control of the unlimited wealth in our money supply, i.e., slavery. Until this is viewed as the massive crime against humanity it is, we’ll remain pathetically self-gelded in our ivory towers.

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     • 

       gerryhiles, on November 10, 2011 at 10:18 pm said:

       Thanks Ernest, I do my best to get my head around and hopefully help clarify the irrationality, if not insanity of now-global banking cluster-fuck … a term I use to allude to the fact that the banks are in an incestuous bed together and no one knows who is screwing the other the most “in the family” of JPM, BAC, Goldman Sachs and all the rest.

       Who has caught the latest infection of worthless bond issues, arcane derivatives and ‘assets’ not “marked to market”, e.g. tranches of mortgages which may, in fact, be worth nothing?:

       No worries because, so far, banks have got away with double-taxing.

       In the first place they tax (via interest) the monies they loan to governments for whatever purposes – including wars – and then get governments to pay the tax(interest) from regular taxes levied on citizens.

       Mind-bending! I am still struggling with trying to understand the mind-set of bankers who want to have their cake and eat it too.

       This is currently being played out with banksters wanting “their money back + interest” and, at the same time, demanding “austerity measures” which shrink the tax base – of employed people – that has so far led to bank bail-outs.

       This cannot go on and if, in a final fit of pique – well Iran is not part of this crazy banking cabal (nor was Libya, nor Iraq) – if Iran is attacked, then all bets are off and and hell is on for all and sundry, not least banksters who thought that they could run a Ponzi scheme forever.

       Sorry that I have run several threads together, but that is the way my mind works … including having reached the rational conclusion that what Ellen articulates could have, or may yet yield a sane way of using money/a means of exchange, so as to enhance existence, rather than destroy it.

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         Ernest Huber, on November 11, 2011 at 12:22 pm said:

         Gerry, your vital insights, and those of a growing number of others, are helping to pierce the darkness suffocating humanity. Thank you so much. Never relent.

         A few in each generation manage to escape Plato’s cave and reach the light. The cave-bound usually deride the escapees’ subsequent entreaties.

         Monetary crimes, like all other crimes, have always been with us and will never be completely eradicated, but they can be fought and minimized. For instance, Aristotle condemned interest on money, Jesus flogged the banksters, and several of our Presidents took bullets.

         I’ve similarly puzzled over the bankster mind-set, and concluded it’s classic criminal psychopathy among those with high intelligence. Besting them requires equivalent intellect, and cojones.

         Our current desperate world monetary circumstances dictate we must escalate our law enforcement efforts, and soon. The psychopaths’ ultimate drug of choice has never been money, but mass murder. That’s their real thrill. The more power they get, the more they murder, e.g., Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot.

         Running threads together is perfectly understandable, and indicates good situational awareness, which is requisite to peeling this onion and excising its pustulent core. .

         Mankind, to advance, can and must, inter alia, end the primitive and suicidal habits of taxation and interest banking. Those opposing that goal are certainly too cowardly, corrupt, lazy, or ignorant to hold public office.

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         • 

           gerryhiles, on November 11, 2011 at 9:52 pm said:

           Well I never! You know about Plato Ernest … that’s rare and even rarer to understand him/Socrates.

           I had my ‘chains’ involuntarily loosened during about 1976, due to a major disruption in my life that HAD to be examined, given that I am incapable of not thinking … it is much inherent in me as it was for Rene Descartes (cogito erg sum) as it clearly was for Socrates/Plato and a myriad, but minority of others over the millenia, e.g. Carl Jung in recent times.

           I mention him because, during c. 1976, I more or less simultaneously, suddenly found that I could understand all manner of stuff and integrate it, e.g. Jungs “dark night of the soul” and the quest for “individuation/self-knowledge” dovetails perfectly with the long and dangerous attempt to “see the clear light of day” at the Cave Mouth … likely to drive a person insane, if arrived at too soon (I can give examples, but will not at present; for the sake of staying more or less on topic.

           It might seem that I digress but, from my Jungian angle (obviously psychological) during the period that I was suddenly understanding Plato, Descartes, Kant and many others I suddenly had an “archetypal dream” which still is playing out after 32 years.

           In brief: I found myself going down a slope and against the flow of all manner of “authority figures’, but soon found myself alone and climbing a mountain track, with increasing difficulty (I am leaving out a lot of the details and richness of my dream).

           The climb got harder, but I reached the top of the mountain and entered a cave, which quickly narrowed.

           Then a voice said, “If you want to see the wreck of the Titanic, then you will have to push VERY hard.”

           Suddenly it was as if I was thousands of miles distant from our planet and I could see a hole right through it.

           Well it was not too hard to realize that the current, global, industrial form of civilization is shot full of holes, e.g. the resources necessary to producing ‘consumer stuff’ are finite, so this current form of civilization/empire is bound to fail.

           Until only about 2-3 years ago I had failed to notice the (let’s say) BLACK HOLE of financialism, into which everything disappears.

           I am still working on that, though I do know that we are dealing with insanity/psychopathy in the ‘highest places’ in government and banks.

           Maybe I will have another go later; but part with this:

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           • 

             Ernest Huber, on November 12, 2011 at 10:56 am said:

             Gerry, thanks for that great video. It reminded of my time as a forensic psychologist doing sanity interviews of murderers. Every single patient had been previously diagnosed “insane,” but through proper technique I found them all to be malingering psychopaths subject to trial.

             I also like Jung, especially his archetypes. But I prefer de Chardin’s noosphere, conjoined with Lonergan’s Generalized Empirical Method, to Jung’s collective unconscious.

             So what does all of this mean? The bankster core are whack jobs who won’t go away peacefully. I’ve long counseled that a primary duty of each generation is to early identify and neutralize their psychopaths or suffer greatly. Unfortunately for us, psychopathy is irremedial and controlled only by aversive stimuli — they will have to be physically defeated.

             Please correspond with me further at ernesthuberforcongress@gmail.com

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3. 

   Ernest Huber, on November 10, 2011 at 12:59 am said:

   Great video, Ellen. The conclusion of my research while running for Congress is that central banks such as the Federal Reserve are monetary crime syndicates. They recruit political accomplices to legitimize their RICO operations and the massive theft of mankind’s prosperity and liberty. They have also caused millions of deaths. They must be severely punished and their assets must be forfeited as being the products of criminal enterprises. Obviously, we owe them nothing for the Monopoly money they print our of thin air to buy our bonds with. We have issued debt-free and tax-free currency at several times in our nation’s history, and we must do so now. It’s quite simple: Pay the banksters and self-destruct, or issue and regulate our own money supply and prosper.

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4. 

   skanda42, on November 10, 2011 at 3:21 am said:

   There is a new document: http://bit.ly/ruIgFB

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5. 

   Jack, on November 29, 2011 at 3:18 am said:

   Ellen – Exciting stuff seeing you talk to Occupiers (all of us). Please keep fleshing out and honing the message. Folks get it on a cellular level but need the specifics. OWS is serving to shift the conversation to the root of the problem. As people all over the world truly start to understand the monetary system, the momentum will be unstoppable. I send you tons of confidence and courage. We need you.

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   • 

     Ellen Brown, on November 29, 2011 at 5:38 am said:

     Thanks Jack!

     Reply

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