The Bankers’ “Power Revolution”: How the Government Got Shackled by Debt

Posted on May 31, 2019 by Ellen Brown

This article is excerpted from my new book Banking on the People: Democratizing Money in the Digital Age, available in paperback June 1.

The U.S. federal debt has more than doubled since the 2008 financial crisis, shooting up from $9.4 trillion in mid-2008 to over $22 trillion in April 2019. The debt is never paid off. The government just keeps paying the interest on it, and interest rates are rising.

In 2018, the Fed announced plans to raise rates by 2020 to “normal” levels — a fed funds target of 3.375 percent — and to sell about $1.5 trillion in federal securities at the rate of $50 billion monthly, further growing the mountain of federal debt on the market. When the Fed holds government securities, it returns the interest to the government after deducting its costs; but the private buyers of these securities will be pocketing the interest, adding to the taxpayers’ bill.

In fact it is the interest, not the debt itself, that is the problem with a burgeoning federal debt. The principal just gets rolled over from year to year. But the interest must be paid to private bondholders annually by the taxpayers and constitutes one of the biggest items in the federal budget. Currently the Fed’s plans for “quantitative tightening” are on hold; but assuming it follows through with them, projections are that by 2027 U.S. taxpayers will owe $1 trillion annually just in interest on the federal debt. That is enough to fund President Donald Trump’s trillion-dollar infrastructure plan every year, and it is a direct transfer of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy investors holding most of the bonds.

Where will this money come from? Crippling taxes, wholesale privatization of public assets, and elimination of social services will not be sufficient to cover the bill. Continue reading →

Filed under: Ellen Brown Articles/Commentary | Tagged: , , , | 41 Comments »

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    — 2023 —

    1. 5-22-23: Radio interview, 9:30 am est, The Power Hour.
    1. 5-17-23: TV interview, CGTN America, Global Business: “Banking industry in hot seat during Congressional hearings.”

    1170. Apr 27, National Infrastructure Bank Coalition webinar, “How to Build the Nation: National Banking vs. Privatization”

    1. Apr 23, interview on World Stage with Bruce De Torres, TNT Radio
    1. 4-17-23, 9 am pst, interview with Prof. Richard Wolff, “Economic Update.”

    1167. 4-8 & 4-9, 9 am est, radio interview with Dr. Elaina George, “Medicine on Call.”

    1166. 4-8-23, noon pst, radio interview, Tom Quinn Show, ksco.com.

    1165. 4-6-23, radio interview with Phillip Farruggio, “It’s the Empire, Stupid.”

    1164. 4-4-23, 2 pm edt, NIB Zoom Roundtable, “National Banking in Times of Crisis.”

    1163. Mar. 24 & 25, United for Free Speech Webinar, Think Local, Ireland.

    1162. 3-23-23, 9 am EST, radio interview, The Power Hour.

    1161. 3-19-23, Interview with James Corbett, “Alternative Solutions to the Banking Crisis.”

    1160. 3-16-23, 5 pm pst, National Infrastructure Bank Coalition Town Hall, “Restructuring the American Workforce in a Time of Financial and Economic Turbulence.”

    1159. 3-14-23, 5 pm EST, Living In The Solution with Dr. Elaina George

    1158. 3-9-23, 8 am PST, Sarah Westall, podcast

    1157. 3-2-23, 11 am EST, The Gary Null Show, PRN.live.

    1156. 2-25-23, 15:00-17:00 GMT (Ireland), Think Local Conference 2023, Panel 3 – Money & Economics – New Paradigms

    1155. 2-16-23, 5 pm pst, National Infrastructure Bank Coalition, “Washington, Hamilton, Lincoln: National Banking and the Economic Demands of Today’s Crisis,” NIB Zoom Town Hall

    1154. 1-19-23, 5 pm pst, National Infrastructure Bank Coalition, “National Banking Will Drive a U.S. Economic Boom!” NIB Zoom Town Hall

    — 2022 —

    1153. 12-15-22: 5 pm pst, National Infrastructure Bank Town Hall presentation.

    1152. 11-17-22: NIB Zoom Town Hall, “The Next Steps: The American System and the National Infrastructure Bank.”

    1151. 10-19-22: NIB Zoom Town Hall, “Rebuild the Nation with a New Reconstruction Finance Corporation.”

    1150. 10-8-22: 18th Annual AMI Monetary Reform Conference, 2022 “The Monetary Scene: The Last Three Years,” power point presentation.

    1149. 9-8-22, 5 pm pst: NIB Zoom Town Hall, “US at the Crossroads: American Industrial Recovery or Fed Chair Powell’s Recession.”

    1148. 8-11-22, 5 pm, National Infrastructure Bank Coalition webinar.

    1147. 8-2-22, noon pst, interview by Rep. Pamela Powers Hannley, “Powers for the People” podcast (joining Prof. Bob Hockett).

    1146. 8-1-22, 5:50 to 6:10 pm pst, interview with Scott Harris, WPKN Radio in Bridgeport, CT, “Between the Lines.”

    1145. 7-22-22, 5 pm pst, National Infrastructure Bank Coalition webinar.

    1144. 7-8-22, 5 pm pst, Interview with Kevin Barrett, Truth Jihad Radio.

    1143. 6-30-22, 5 pm pst, National Infrastructure Bank Coalition webinar with Prof. Robert Hockett, Sen. Bob Hasegawa, et al.

    1142. 6-16-22: National Infrastructure Bank Coalition webinar on stagflation with Nomi Prins, Robert Hockett, et al.

    1141. 6-10-22: TNT radio interview with Sen. Malcolm Roberts, Australia.

    1140. 5-19-22: 5 pm pst, National Infrastructure Bank town hall presentation. https://www.nibcoalition.com/all-videos

    1139. 5-17-22: 11 am pst, interview, Kerry Lutz’s Financial Survival Network.

    1138. Apr. 22, 5 pm cst, interview, The Hrvoje Morić Show, TNT Radio

    1137. Apr. 22, 11 am est, Gary Null Show, PRN Live

    1136. Apr. 20, 7 pm cst, webinar, “Public Banking: Investing in Colorado!,” Colorado Public Banking Coalition

    1135. 4-19, 9 am pst, interview with Simone Mariam for the Italian blog MittDolcino

    1134. Apr. 19, 12:30 pm pst, interview with Jay Taylor, “A PetroRuble Now Competes with the PetroDollar”, Jay Taylor Media

    1133. Apr. 15, Interview with Kristina Borjesson, The Whistleblower Newsroom, bitchute, “History Informs a Reset That Could Serve the People”

    1132. Apr. 8, Interview with Kevin Barrett, Truth Jihad Radio, 5 pm pst

    1131. Apr. 6, Podcast with Bob Scheer, ScheerPost.com

    1130. Mar. 31, Power Point presentation on youtube, Universidad Nacional de Colombia, Invita: Debates Ensayos de Economia Coordina: Guillermo Maya — Profesor adscrito al Departamento de Economia

    1129. Mar. 10, Webinar presentation, “Stop Inflation in Its Tracks! Role of the National Infrastructure Bank”

    1128. Feb. 17, Webinar presentation for National Infrastructure Bank Coalition, Abraham Lincoln and the American System of Economics

    — 2021 —

    1127. Dec. 18, Daniel Estulin and Ellen Brown on Global Economic Implosion, Kevin Barrett Truth Jihad

    1126. Dec. 7, Interview with Daniel Estulin

    1125. Nov. 27, “The Greening of Finance and the Global PPP Land Grab” with Matt Ehret on youtube

    1124. Sep. 29, interview with Jan Roberts of Systems Change Advocate,  jroberts@ciaction.org> linkedin.com/in/jan-roberts-0001688  Systems Change Advocate 

    1123. Aug. 30, Center for Global Justice webinar with Walt McRee, “Public Banking: Democratizing Finance”

    1122. July 28, 5 pm pst, webinar, “Public Banks: A Path to Economic Transformation in California,” EcoCiv Dialogues for Global Systems Change series

    1121. July 22, 5 pm pst, webinar, “The Truth about America’s Monetary System,” American Ethical Union National Conference

    1120. Mar. 29, 2 pm est, panel hosted by Rickey Gard Diamond, “Zoom of Our Own, Creating Currency and Blowing Big Bubbles.”

    1119. Mar. 25, 11 am pst, BoldRethink webinar, TBA

    1118. Mar. 21, 10 am pst, Public Banking panel, TBA

    1117. March 5, Sean Stone interview, Unrig

    1116. March 2, PBI Live Town Hall, Ohio

    1115. Feb. 23, 7 pm est, Eco Justice Collaborative Webinar, “Why the Crises We Face Make Financial Reform Essential,” Religious Society of Friends, Philadelphia

    1114. Feb. 17, 11 am, Steff Overbeck, Pod of Gold radio interview

    1113. Feb. 18, radio interview, Phil Mikan, wlis1420

    1112. Feb. 16, National Infrastructure Bank Coalition Presidents’ Day Webinar 2021 – “National Infrastructure Bank: Standing on the Shoulders of Giants”

    1111. Feb. 6, radio interview, Sylvia Richardson, Latin Waves

    1110. Jan. 28, 6 pm est, PBI NY Town Hall

    1109. Jan. 27, “Ellen Brown and Matt Ehret Discuss: A Brief History of Economic Warfare and the American System”, youtube

    1108. Jan. 16, 11 am cst, Warner Lewis, Lewis at Large (Kansas City), KLWN, 101.7 FM

    1107. Jan. 15, 3-5 pm, Revolution Radio, The Fetzer Report

    1106. Jan. 8, 4 pm PST, zoom power point presentation, Praxis Peace Institute

    — 2020 —

    1105. Dec. 30, 3 pm EST, Eleanor LeCain radio show on PRN

    1104. Dec. 28, 9 pm EST, interview on WPKN Radio with Scott Harris, Between The Lines Radio 

    1103. Dec. 13, Ramola D. Reports, US/UK news panel #11, with Prof. Tim Canova, et al.

    1102. Dec. 12, podcast/radio interview,  Ralph Nader Radio Hour

    1101. Dec. 6, Ramola D. Reports, US/UK news panel #10, with Dr. Christiane Northrup et al.

    1100. Nov. 29, Ramola D. Reports, News Panel 9, with Justin Walker, Andy Kaufmann, John Reizer, Sandi Adams

    1099. Nov. 3, Turning Point Talks, Australia, Zoom power point presentation, 7 pm Australia time

    1098. Nov. 1, 4 pm pst, panel, 2020 Building the New World Conference

    1097. Oct. 26, Phil Mikan Show, WLIS/WMRD Radio, Conn., pre-recorded for Friday at 10 est or Saturday at 9-11 est

    1096. Oct. 22, 1:15 pm EST, power point presentation, “Public Banking, Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) and the National Debt,” Carolina Hills Community, Chapel Hill, NC

    1095. October 3, 1:30, “Energizing a Just Transition Conference.”

    1094. Sept. 30, webinar,2020 Building the New World Conference, 4 pm pst/7 pm est

    1093. Sept. 12, San Diego public banking group webinar with Sen. Ben Hueso, 5 pm

    1092. Sept. 9, interview with Meria Heller, 10 am pst

    1091. Aug. 30, interview with Jack Etkin, Citizens Forum,  Community Television, Victoria, BC, 2 pm pst

    1090. Aug. 17, The Power Hour, 10 am PDT.

    1089. July 30, 4 pm PST, John Truman Wolfe Financial Hour

    1088. July 15, 6 pm EST, Connecticut Public Banking Town Hall, livestream here

    1087. July 13, Webinar, Center for Global Justice, “Why Public Banking Needs to Be Run as a Public Utility,” San Miguel de Allende, Mexico, 11am-1pm PDT

    1086. Interview with Susan Johnson on public banking for Connecticut, WILI’s Let’s Talk About It Show, 5 pm EST

    1085. Interview on Russia Today, “In Question,”  “BlackRock the Behemoth,” July 2, 2020

    1084. July 1, Bonnie Faulkner interview with Peter Koenig on Guns and Butter

    1083, July 1, 8 am PST, interview with Phillip Farruggio, “It’s the Empire, Stupid,” Greanvillepost.com

    1082. June 29, 9-9:30 pm EST, interview with Scott Harris, “Between the Lines,” WPKN Radio, Conn.

    1081. June 24, 6-6:30 pm EST, interview with Paul DeRienzo, WBAI News, New York City

    1080. June 23, 6:30-8pm MST, Webinar on Forming a New Mexico State Public Bank, Alliance for Local Economic Prosperity

    1o79. June 10, podcast with Kim Iverson, “The Fed and the Big Bank Wealth Heist. Why We Need Public Banking.”

    1078. Interview with Sylvia Richardson, Latin Waves, 10 am PST

    1077. June 5, 6 pm pst, Center for American Studies Town Meeting, Concord, NH, live-streamed

    1076. June 5, 12:30 pm, Public Banking Town Hall for Colorado Leaders, Zoom conference

    1075. May 28, WECAN webinar, “Structuring an Economy for People and Planet in the Time of Climate Crisis and COVID-19,” 11:00 am PST/ 2:00pm EST

    1074. May 22, Interview with Kevin Barrett, Truth Jihad Radio, 5 pm PST

    1073. May 21, Interview with Aaron Wissner, Local Future, Youtube livestream

    1072. May 20, radio interview, “Law and Disorder,” New York City

    1071. May 13, interview with Paul Jay, “Does Public Banking Work?”, The Analysis

    1070. May 10, 12:00-1:00 PM EST, Dr. Elaina George radio show

    1069. May 7, 11 am EST, interview with Phillip Farruggio, “It’s the Empire, Stupid,” Greanvillepost.com

    1068. May 6, Conversations with Rob, community radio, 9 am PST

    1067. Apr 4, interview with Walt McRee and Mark Anielski, The Economics of Wellbeing podcast (pre-recorded, TBA)

    1066. May 2, podcast with Matt Stannard, Cowboys on the Commons

    1065. May 1, Interview with Robert Scheer, Scheer Intelligence, KCRW Los Angeles

    1064. April 30, 12 noon MDT, Public Banking Virtual Town Hall sponsored by Colorado Public Banking Coalition

    1063. April 30, 6-6:30 pm, interview with Paul DeRienzo, WBAI News, New York City

    1062. Apr 29, 1 pm PST, radio interview with Reinette Senum, KVRM, Nevada City, CA (pre-recorded)

    1061. Apr 26, Schiller Institute Online Conference, 3 pm EST

    1060. Apr 26, 6:30 am PST, Morano in the Morning radio talk show

    1059. Apr 21, Interview with Jason Hartman, Creating Wealth Show

    1058. April 13, “Flashpoints,” KPFA, 5:40 pm PST.

    1057. April 9, radio interview with Claudia Cragg, “It’s the Economy,” KGNU Boulder CO, 6 pm MST.

    1056. April 7, “Treasury Takeover?”, podcast interview with Sarah Westall and Harley Schlanger

    1055. March 26, interview with Phillip Farruggio, “It’s the Empire, Stupid,” Greanvillepost.com

    1054. Mar. 17, 7 pm EST, interview with Gary Null, Progressive Commentary Hour

    1053. Feb. 19, radio interview on George Noory’s “Coast to Coast,” 10-12 pm pst.

    1052. Feb. 8, interview with Sylvia Richardson, “Latin Waves” radio podcast.

    1051. Jan. 8, interview with Marcus Ruiz Evans, 1 pm PST

    1050. Jan. 2, interview with Kevin Barrett,  truthjihadradio, 5 pm PST

    — 2019 —

    1049. Dec. 2, Interview with Jeff J. Brown, China Rising Radio

    1048. Nov. 24, 7 pm, presentation sponsored by Agenda for a Prophetic Faith, Claremont Presbyterian Church, Claremont, CA, “Why We Need Public Banks”

    1047. Nov. 24, 11 am, public banking presentation for “Growing Christians” class, Claremont United Methodist Church, Claremont, CA

    1046. Nov. 23, public banking presentation, Pilgrim Place, Claremont, CA

    1045. Nov 16-17, speaker, Soil & Nutrition Conference, Southbridge, MA.

    1044. Nov. 12, interview in New York with Max Keiser, Keiser Report, “Repo Markets and UBI”

    1043. Nov. 6, 5 pm EST, The CivicLab Show with Tom Tresser, live@www.facebook.com/tomtree

    1042. Oct. 23, 11:30 am-1:30 pm, luncheon presentation on public banking, League of Women Voters of San Diego, Tom Ham’s Lighthouse Restaurant, 2150 Harbor Island Dr., San Diego

    1041. Oct. 22, Presentation on public banking, DSA San Diego, Unite Here Union Hall, 2436 Market Street, San Diego, 6-7:30 pm.

    1040. Oct 16-18, keynote speaker, Economics of Happiness conference, Jeonju, South Korea

    1039. Oct. 6, 6 pm pst, interview, Jeff Rense Radio.

    1038. Sept 30, noon EST, radio interview with Pauline Salotti, WUSB, Stony Brook, NY, 90.1 FM, wusb.fm.

    1037. Sept. 26, 7 pm presentation, “Exploding the Myths of Money and Banking,” New Paradigm College, Lake County, CA

    1036. Sept. 20, podcast interview, Silver Doctors

    1035. Sept. 19, 8-9 pm pst, interview, Jeff Rense Radio.

    1034. Interview, Sept. 13 at 5 pm–6 pm on KPFZ, Lake County community Radio, 88.1 FM.

    1033. Sept. 6, Live with Ernest Hancock, 11 am EST (at 2 hour mark on video)

    1032. Aug. 26, interview with Jason Hartman, Creating Wealth Show, 12:00 pm PST.

    1031. Aug. 9, interview with Lauren Steiner, youtube

    1030. July 25, youtube podcast with Sarah Westall, “This is Why China Is Winning”

    1029. July 23, interview with Steve Bhaerman, Wiki Politiki Radio Show, 2 pm pst.

    1028. July 19, interview with Kevin Barrett,  truthjihadradio, 5 pm PST

    1027. July 12, 11 am pst, interview with Annie Esposito and Steve Scalmanini, “Corporations & Democracy,” Mendocino County, CA, www.KZYX.org

    1026. Interview with Crystal Arnold, Money-Wise Women, posted July 10

    1025. July 9, interview with Liz Lane, “It’s the Economy,” KGNU Boulder/Denver/Ft. Collins, 6 pm MDT/8 pm EDT.

    1024. June 23, interview with Mark Anielski, “The Economics of Well-being”

    1023. June 15, interview with Tom Allen, “This Week in Money,” HoweStreet.com

    1022. June 13, Interview with Sinclair Noe, “Financial Review,” MoneyRadio1510.com (pre-recorded)

    1021. June 12, 2 pm, interview on Princeton Community TV, Princeton NJ, “The Public Banking Solution” with Walt McRee

    1020. June 1, interview with Sylvia Richardson, “Latin Waves” radio podcast.

    1019.  Apr. 5, interview with Phillip Watt, healbyhypnosis.com, 3 pm, PT

    1018.  April 3, panel discussion on Green New Deal, BBC World Service, “The Balance”

    1017.  March 28, interview on Thom Hartmann show.

    1016. March 22, interview with Sinclair Noe, Money Radio 1510 

    1015.  March 11, interview with Phillip Farruggio, greanvillepost.com, 11 a.m. EST

    1014.

    1013.  Feb. 9, interview with Sylvia Richardson, Latin Waves, 8 a.m. PT

    1012.  Feb. 8, interview with Kevin Barrett,  truthjihadradio, 6 pm, PST

    1011. Jan. 31, interview with Lee Camp, LeeCampComedySpecial.com

    1010.  Jan. 3, interview with Robert Stark, The Stark Truth with Robert Stark, re The Green New Deal  https://www.starktruthradio.com/?p=8534

    — 2018 —

    1009.  Dec. 17, interview with Scott Harris, WPKN radio, Bridgeport, CT, Between the Lines Radio Newsmagazine, 9:30 ET

    1008. Nov. 2, Interview with Mike Prysner on Real News Network, https://therealnews.com/stories/will-public-banking-free-la-from-wall-street

    1007. Oct. 31, interview on Real News Network, Student Debt Dogs Millenials for a Lifetime and Drags Down the Economy, https://therealnews.com/stories/student-debt-dogs-millennials-for-a-lifetime-and-drags-down-the-economy

    1006. Oct. 22, speaker with Gar Alperovitz at Praxis Peace Institute, “Changing the System: California’s Strategic Role in National Strategic Change,” Sonoma, CA, 276 E. Napa St, Sonoma. 7:00 pm.

    1005. Oct 19-21, Bioneers Conference, panelist on Oct 20, 2:45 pm, Marin Center, San Rafael, CA.997.

    1004. Oct. 18, 350Marin.org, speaking along with Susan Harman, 750 Lindaro Street, San Rafael CA, 6:30pm.

    1003. Oct. 17, video interview with Abby Martin, work in progress.

    1001.  Oct. 11, Interview with Harvey Wasserman, Greenpower and Wellness, prn.fm, KPFK Los Angeles, 2 pm

    1000.  Oct. 9, speaker, State Bank Forum, University of Washington, Kane Hall, 7-9pm http://sdc.wastateleg.org/hasegawa/state-bank/

    999. Oct. 7, panel, Americans for Democratic Action of Southern California Annual Garden Party, 2-5:30 pm, Santa Monica, CA

    998.  Oct. 4, 7:30 pm, Living Economy Salon, panelist, Public Bank LA: “Solutions for Social and Environmental Justice”, 3110 Main St., Annex Building C 2nd Floor, Santa Monica, CA 90405

    997. Oct. 3, interview on Unmediated, podcast of Reader Magazine, episode title: Making Money The Public’s Slave (The Public Banking Solution), 10 a.m.  PT

    996. Oct. 1, radio interview, “The Power Hour,” www.thepowerhour.com, 2 pm

    995. Sept. 28, interview with Sinclair Noe, Money Radio 1510, pre-recorded for a later date

    994.  Sept. 20-22, California Vision 2020 Conference, speaking at 11 am on Sept 20, Sheraton Grand Hotel , Sacramento.

    993.  Sept. 10, interview with Lila Garrett on KPFK, “Connect the Dots”, http://www.kpfk.org/on-air/connect-the-dots/  7. a.m. PT

    992. Sept. 4, interview with Steve Bhaerman, Wikipolitiki Radio, wikipolitiki.com, 2 pm PT

    991. Aug. 31, interview with Kevin Barrett, truthjihadradio. 6 pm PT

    990. Aug. 26, Left Coast Forum, 1:30 pm, Los Angeles Trade Tech

    989. Aug. 22, interview, the Gary Null Show, 9:40 PST

    988. Aug. 14, podcast interview with Sarah Westall, 9 am pst/11 am cst

    987. Aug. 8, interview with Tom Allen, “This Week in Money”, HoweStreet.com

    986.  Aug. 9, interview with Sinclair Noe, Money Radio 1510, pre-recorded for a later date

    985. Aug. 3, 9-10 pm pst, radio interview with True Ott

    984. Aug 2, New York Green Party video livestream,  5 pm PST

    983.  Aug. 1, interview with Elizabeth Dougherty, The Dougherty Report, Newsradio 102.5 WFLA, 3 pm PST

    982. July 21, guest on WakingupinAmerica.com, 6:45 a.m., PDT

    981.  June 28, interview on MONEY RADIO with Sinclair Noe, 11:00 a.m., PST

    980. May 16, “It’s Our Money,” PRN.FM, 3 pm est

    979. May 16, interview with Michael Welch, Global Research, 11 am pst

    978. May 4, First Unitarian Church, Portland, power point presentation, “How Public Banking Would Benefit Portland and Oregon”, 7-9 pm

    977.  April 17, Retirement Lifestyle Advocates radio program, 1 pm PT

    976.  April 13, interview, the Gary Null Show, 9:35 a.m., PT. Subject: The Bayer-Monsanto Merger Is Bad News for the Planet.

    975. April 12 “Mind Over Matters,” KEXP, Seattle, 9 am PT 

    974. April 5, interview with Deb Hobson, KOPN 89.5  Democracy Now! Chautauqua, 4 pm PT

    973. Mar. 10-12, PBI retreat, Loveland, CO

    972.  Mar. 22 interview with Sinclair Noe, The Financial Review, Money Radio 510, 1:30 pm PST

    971.  Mar. 19, Coast to Coast AM radio, 10pm-midnight, PST

    970.  Feb. 28, interview with Ian Trottier, Miami Radio, http://iantrottier.com/, 5:15 pm EST.  Listen here, bit.ly/EllenBrownCA

    969. Jan. 23. 18th National Conference and Global Forum: The Science Business, and Education of Sustainable Infrastructure, Washington DC, panel

    968.  Jan. 20, Interview with Primo Nutmeg https://soundcloud.com/primonutmeg

    967.  Jan. 17, It’s Our Money, 3 pm est–listen here.

    966.  Jan. 17, interview with Valerie Kirkgaard, http://www.wakingupinamerica.com, 2 pm PST

    965.  Jan. 2, Interview withJeff Rense, rense.com, 9 pm PST

    — 2017 and before, see —

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